surochek said:

I used to write like that -- it was fun. Now I know too much. And I can't fudge with these little details anymore. Maybe the psyche gets more fragile the more conscious knowledge you pile on it.

Zen-writing? Is that the key?

Edit: *writing* psyche

Could you expand upon what you mean by "now I know too much"?

surochek said:

Once upon a time I used to sit down and write stories. Then I started taking the art of writing seriously and learning about it: composition, plotting, structure, and how to put it together. How the reader reads and how the storyteller tells the stories. Why it all happens. Why stories endure and why writers fail.

So now I pay attention to a lot of details even as I write: language (grammar and syntax), of course, and spelling, but those are old concerns; word choice, even more than before; I also think ahead to what a plot or characterization decision now will mean later in the story.

In other words, instead of staggering through a story as it unfolds in my mind's eye ("reading" my own stories as I write them) I compose them. I've gone from being a "pantser" (writing by the seat of my pants) to almost a "plotter" (developing the plot details ahead of time).

Actually, I still dive into a story and then step back and plot. I need to meet my characters and get a feel for my world before I can really write.

Does that make sense?

OK, it makes plenty of sense. Yes, I made that transition as well--or am still making it.

I used to play music on a regular basis, and writing feels a bit like that: you study composition, music theory, learn to read it, learn the structure. But when it comes time to perform, those things have all informed your gestalt and it's time to see what the sum of it all is--and let go. I can't analyze and artify at the same time, so I switch gears, back and forth. At first, the two were so far apart it was hard. With art, it's now an effortless shift back and forth. Writing is getting to be the same way; but the part where I create words is more like singing than the result of a calculation. It has to SOUND right, too, and have rhythm and gesture.

The structure of my day is such that I get to ponder plot and characterization during the two hours of commuting every weekday, and the writing is between the raindrops--since if I'm visible to Kay, she thinks I'm available (whether I am or not). I will journal about the story and characters to mull it over, but I don't necessarily make formal outlines or such.

(And like Wayii's Cam, I sometimes think she sincerely hates to see my ass hit that chair to do something that doesn't focus on her concerns. Yeah, that's right, Kay! I know it! Hah!)

I think I was initially wondering if you, Masha, did something like literally plot out the plot with 3x5 cards or some sort of seriously nitpicky organization.

Cool-- yes, a sketch, an underpainting. ;) 

I have found my sketches read like essays to myself that discuss topics and characters.

Characters...are figments that have their own voices and seem to live independently. I love this notion of budding off of my imaginative self. And YES, I have had Poser characters become central figments! OMG, I couldn't have rewritten this first book if that hadn't happened--to have layers upon layers of villains. Heh.

I took away from the McKee book, among other things, that the point of any scene is to present a challenge of some sort that must be resolved in order to further the plot, and that they should get bigger and hairier as the story went on, and yet not wander from the central challenge(s) and themes.

I started in 3D because I got hooked on plotting collages and I felt the need to create my own puzzle pieces (actual Hollywood actors or catalog models were just too intrusive). The rest is history.

But I always did make up stories in my mind. In fact I started writing them down because I realized that I could remain consistent within a story-world and with characters for days on end. That was back in middle school, I think. And drawing -- my drawings always told a story as I created them, even if they were of a single horse or a doodle of a shaggy dog. Not as realized as Nan's but they were all characters.

As to where to start writing? A story starts where the trouble starts. Not where the life of the characters begins, not where the elements of the trouble first appear, but where the shot is fired. And the first scene usually needs to be rewritten once the whole story is finished, because you know things by then you couldn't know at first.

Yeah, blurbs happen.

What a good summary of what the theme is. I could never get my finger on it.

I learned a lot from Russian magic tales. The setup is very lean: just bare bones so you know what kind of tale you're dealing with (say, girl, her mother dies, father remarries, father departs = magic tale with a female hero => specific expectations). THEN the trouble starts: stepmother piles impossible tasks on our girl.

A modern story can't be so linear. So it would be: impossible tasks are piled on our girl. Why? -- let's thread in some backstory (explanations) without dumping ALL the information on the reader.

You start where the trouble starts: our girl is drowning under the impossible tasks.

Right on, Raet. One fun exercise is to write an action-adventure in one thousand words or less. With a romance bend. Good writing exercise. Much harder than a character sketch.

(unless you're me. writing character sketches is boring. I'd rather bring characters to life through action)

Looks like I'm going to be giving an online workshop on the subject sometime in the coming academic year.

No date set yet. *waiting*

This set has a lot of odds and ends I've seen people asking for in the past: http://www.daz3d.com/shop/gatwyck-marketplace/

She's been having some difficulties at home. Biggest problem being associated with replacing the A/C.

Me too. The poor lady is most comfortable at temps in the mid to high 60s and it's been unusually hot.

{{hugs}}
I wonder if part of the problem is that they're keeping the temps higher for the sake of weaker patients. Expend less energy staying warm that way?

That's what I thought at first... I mean they do keep the upper floors super cold. It's the entire first floor (ER, Pediatrics and L&D) that is like 10 degrees warmer... Doesn't help the babies with fever though....

It really is hard to watch... 

Just keep them coming, we will help you. Just something I saw in passing: rendo are selling a poser beginner's tutorial which might be a good starting point; to be honest, though, I have found poser easier to work with than DS, which I have never understood.

No idea, here.  I just organize it by hand.

We had a discussion on this awhile ago, you may find reviewing it helpful.

http://3d-noir.cooltuna.com/discussion/comment/4713#Comment_4713

Starts at that post and continues on a bit.

Tedious work, but I'm oh so happy I did it.

I like some of his stuff---- but no more purchasing anything until I know there's a job after next weekend. And......my return of my visit to le fam...Eh, probably not til August. :D

Thanks Terre. :) Probably gonna need it. I'm not going to overly stress over it until after I come back from my out of state trip. :-bd

Wow. That has Baku (one of my figments) written all over it!

Since this is a hobby for you it's probably best to wait and see how the employment stuff works out. After all, there will be future sales.

suro, what is the iceburg rule?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceberg_Theory

This refers to Hemingway's practice of NOT exposing the structure of the story. I thought it referred to as not exposing anything unnecessarily.

Dan Simmons (one of my favorites) mentions it on his web site:

Most of you reading this have heard of Hemingway’s
famous “iceberg rule” for writing – that
seven-eighths of the story should be underwater, invisible,
only hinted at by the one-eighth tip of prose shown to the
reader – but the truth is that all good writers have
followed this rule, before and after Hemingway, no matter
how complex and convoluted and anti-Hemingwayesque their style
may be.

Style is illusion – it is the summoning of
much through the revelation of little. It is the professional
magician’s primary tool of misdirection – look
here and . . .oops! Look what happened there! It is inference
and insinuation via the illusion of specificity while actual
specificity – What river? What mountains?
What troops? – is often being assiduously avoided.

It is, in other words, the active and continous engagement
of the intelligent reader’s participation.

http://www.dansimmons.com/writing_welll/archive/2006_03.htm

/{{hugs back}}

That's basically it, yes. 

Nanobot said:

So...this would mean, focusing on what's happening "now" and not giving the CV of every character and his or her no-doubt-fascinating backstory unless it's really, really necessary. And having a figment recite it also counts as exposing backstory ;)

Running the risk of being a diddy, but didn't I say that earlier? Maybe I didn't make myself clear when talking about "show, don't tell".

Since none of us run around sharing statistics and all other information about ourselves incessantly with others (like a walking billboard), a good storyteller avoids his characters doing just that.
Create an opportunity to reveal information, show me a moment in which it naturally crops up (i.e. I know Mitch has size 10 feet, but why on earth would anybody meeting him for the first time immediately know that? So, the only conceivable reason for this to be revealed would be if I sent him and Matt getting kitted out for, say, a wedding, or buying new shoes).
That way, your characters and setting become detailed and credible while you avoid hitting your reader over the head with your knowledge and seemingly shoe-horned in information that is otherwise irrelevant.