Works in Progress

Wayii

Sounds like you got an asshole tester. I always liked having Andy test mine back in my vending days. He tended to find real issues, not hosts of RTFM garbage.

GRIM

Andy..I think he was my tester.

anyway- there was a few things I fixed in the interim. There was an additional refl. node on the sclera that wasn't supposed to be there. I added the base lip, separated the make up lip to an additional option. Reorganized the file names, took out the SSS folder (since there was only one option, don't need it). All of the eye issues were taken care of once I re-saved the mt6 files with the cornea on ALL eyes, including the contacts. Now I don't need the additional cornea base option. Amped up the blue color on both blue eye options, updated the lac maps and did a spherize filter on the eye whites to get rid of the ring of shadow that is supposed to blend the iris into the whites.

Tomorrow or the morning I will check out the gen issues. I also saved screen shots of the dials for the gens and the ear to put into the new promos since "no one reads the readme files". I'll just put it in their faces instead.

Test renders:

GRIM

more tests with updated files:

GRIM

the other blue eyes:

Nanobot

Not that the tester wasn't annoying, but I'm glad for the cornea fix. As for making the blue blue-er...I see plenty of allegedly blue eyes that seem mighty gray to me in other characters. In fact, I recall seeing a female character or two with eye options that all seemed gray to me. Like, whut?

GRIM

I know.

And no offense to the person trying to help me last night- but her products were meh at best and she was arguing with me about the eyes and how the human eye is set up. *sigh* I am grateful for the assist, but damn it- I don't want reflection maps on the cornea. The eyes I set up have real reflections, refraction of the human cornea on the cornea...that defeats the purpose of mapped reflections.

GRIM

I was testing outdoor lighting on this one.

Nanobot

I prefer real reflections, myself. You only need the mapped ones if you aren't raytracing or if you don't have anything in the scene with the person!

Feh.

GRIM

Yeah. Ditto. I'm not adding mapped ones-they can kiss my skinny white a$$ if they request'em.

So, the second round of notes came back.

All I can say is FML.

The whites are still too white.

Make REM files for all dials.

No one reads the readme-take out such and such line(s)

Remove email address from ReadMe- Since WHEN? The online version does not have it.

Make limits on the dials- the customers want "make art" buttons, not dials they can tweak themselves.

A few files I fixed, I didn't fix the texture paths for them.

oh- and TAKE OUT ALL THE XMP FILES.

...woulda been nice if half the list they gave me woulda been mentioned beforehand.

Done doing all the changes-now I Have to redo ALL promos and icons in the Runtime folder set up.

*SIGH*

Terre

Ugh. Lets hope this is the last of the hassles.

GRIM

Yeah.

Here's the latest email after I let them know I fixed what they wanted and updated the gen dials:

Ok.. Imagine this scenario, if you will: You're working along. You've got a couple hours into your scene.. M4/Trystan is looking good... but you decide to take off his pants and use the gens mod that comes with him. Ya spend some time adjusting things, so he looks good..... you render. There's a SEAM! Ok... You load the gens adjustment dial. But the dial didn't go to body. Did the dial go to the Gens? or M4?

So. you have to stop playing with poser and .... hunt up the Readme? How long does it take you to find a readme for a product?

But, if you remember where you bought it , you could look up the advertisement page for the product. If you go to the promo page you'll be reminded of how much money you spent on the product that's not working quite right!!

Do you see why I'm objection to these solutions? They interfere with the buyer's enjoyment of your product.

Did you change the order, so the Full Face with eyes comes first? The buyer trusts you to lead him thru your product.

(from your other note!) No, I'm not saying they eyes are too white based on the promo pics. But speaking of promo pics, go look at Maddeleriium's promo eyes, or Vyktoriah's, compared to Trystan's. See how much darker and pinker they are?

Good luck!! THANKS for keeping me posted on your progress!!!

Eh, I can see part of the point. I'm just frustrated as hell (or was) when the suggestions came to remove this, remove that, re-arrange this, that, when that could have been said BEFORE the second round. It would have been done two weeks ago- instead of spending three hours today trying to see if I got what they wanted.

I don't know. I'm still working on this. Though this morning I was really close to putting up a FK U and tossing him completely. There is NO continuity out there for the vendors- and if they want examples of products that should never have passed testing I can give them a damn list.

I'll get over it.

Raetjor

Dar, I feel your frustration. And you are right to be annoyed. Tristan looks great and you have every right to be proud of him as a product. To be honest, they have a point regarding readmes. I can't say I have read more than a handful of them since I started playing about with poser. But Genital adjustment inj morph thingee unclear where it injects. Fuck that!!! If it doesn't do squat first time round you pick option two and inject it into The gens having tried M4 and vice versa, big whoop. Two secs, two clicks, hardly a chore. The only time I go back to the shop is if something really doesn't work of if I want to check out FK quick tutorial and settings for dynamic cloth, but that is it.
As for promo images and quality of products...the images you have put up on this thread are far more accomplished than most promo shots I have seen. In fact, if anything the quality of promos on Rendo has taken a nose dive of the cliffs of Acapulco if you ask me, ever since Daz brought out Genesis and "stopped" publishing new M4 content.
You are going great guns buddy, don't let them discourage you.

GRIM

Thank you, Raet.

Personally, I read all of the ReadMe's of products I purchase, and have them saved if they have important tips in regards to usage. Maybe it's just me? lol

Everything seems to be geared toward "the customer is stupid, make it over-simplified and the same as everyone else" rather than actually getting more than five main vendors' products. Eh.

Thank you for listening (reading) my vent, though! It helped!

I do have an update on his eyes at least- another raw render of course, and IBL lighting this time: I didn't crop it, so you'll get the other test(s) behind the eyeballs. ;)

Nanobot

His eyes are gorgeous, period. He looks very healthy! Big whooptedo.

I'm atypical (like you, Dar), I actually look at the readmes. I even have a special folder for saved instructions of all sorts! I think you got a Maddelirium fangirl/boy. :( :( Or something. Not someone terribly good at communicating to save specifics for later in the process. >_<

GRIM

Yeah but hopefully this time he gets accepted. I'm going to have to re-do the dials for the helper morphs for the gens, but I'm making them freebies so they can't break the damn things again when I did what they wanted.

I admit, I'm knew at making them but I followed step by step instructions five times and they didn't work. So. If people want them to fit better, they can tweak on their own or use my dials when I get them re-done again.

On another note...I have a Jerrith in my head that wants out. XD

GRIM

Those two are the first two test renders of the basic SSS settings. I'm playing, so nothing is concrete at the moment of course. I'm just enjoying the flow of creation at the moment. lol

Wayii

Dude, your tester sounds like a complete mir'shebse. Some of his complaints sound like he's trying to dictate stylistic taste to you -- the entire eyes color and brightness thing for instance.

The nit picking crap almost makes me think he's trying to discourage you getting M4 goods into the store, considering how completely shit a lot of the Genesis 2 stock is and how atrociously crapulent a lot of the new scene and prop packs have gotten (the Star Wars ripoff crap has boggled my mind -- I own buttloads of freebies that are better in every way than the recent spate of ships and stuff they've been selling).

If your tester continues to play these games with you, I might suggest looking into selling your guy through rDNA, YUR Digital or Fantasies Attic.

GRIM

I know, I was seriously considering telling them to f*ck off.

I have emailed back and forth with Sydd, she has the files for him (and I told her some of the troubles I've had with Rendo's testers), and she asked me to do a few promo pieces in the style and quality of some of hers, Tempesta 3D (who does all of hers in Reality/Lux) and someone else and send to her.

I haven't had much time to do that, and today I really just wanted to play. Still, I'll do that soon and get those to her. She seemed interested but I just don't have enough in a store or freebie wise for her to compare too.

If Rendo's tester gives me more grief, I plan to email the site admin and request another tester or just send the updated files to Sydd (with the complete changes) and a few promos and ask if she'd like him in their store instead.

I have been seriously pissed the past two weeks...I even told the tester this is MY style. I'm not asking to copy someone ELSE's Style. F'n' hell.

GRIM

Last one. JUST started on his mouth textures/shaders....and I think I forgot the gums. LOL Last one before work, so more later.

Wayii

Sorry but Maddelirium's women are mostly overly-embellished dolls with oversized eyes and waxy skin that poke my Uncanny Valley more often than not. Granted, these are better than the vah-jayjay mouthed, boy-with-giagantor-jugs blow-up dolls that have dominated the character market for the last half decade but that doesn't make them any sort of glowing example of awesomeness.

Your monster there is pretty cool. Reminds me a bit of the witches on Penny Dreadful (talk about a wellspring of inspiration -- such a visually stimulating show).

GRIM

...wow, thank you, Wayii. *Squeeze!* That means a lot to me. I haven't seen PD in ......so long. Too long.

Well, I got yet another message back. One of the icons (there is one for the one red/white contact and another for the red/white and white contact) that uses the same eye icon (since I couldn't figure out how to get the dual colored set into that 90x90 space) that needs to be changed. And I forgot to copy the full body rem for the muscle body...so they want that FULL REMOVE for the lazy customers that can't figure out that the FULL REMOVE icon will remove both morphs. *Twitch* Oh, and let's not forget the two paragraph 'lesson' I got about the genital issue they had and how the readme is ONLY FOR LISTS. Yanno- since no one reads them.

FML. I'll fix the f'n' icon and remove file and submit this shit one more time. Then I'm done.

Oh- and a mischievous smile and hair this time.

Wayii

I likie!

Both the shape of the face and body and the pallor of the skin are very yummy.

Penny Dreadful just started up season 2 this week, so if you've got cable you can pick it back up again. :)

GRIM

Thankee. I used whole milk SSS on the already pale skin textures for him. I have cable, just no time and very basic package-so that will depend on what channel it's on if I can see it. Hell, I don't even get half the channels I used to have in NY...but I don't have a lot of time to watch, either.

Next installment of the Trystan Files:

Either remove the gen option completely or fix it. Take out ALL the tips in the readme file since no one reads it.

So, I DID finally find out I had selected "use texture maps" on the scatter nodes-those are removed. I made another gen dial inj/rem to help get it to fit better. So testing renders, and I'll have to redo some of the promos and store front details to resubmit him. They want him, but those have to be fixed. *sigh* Really...

Still that's a positive note. The tester's manager wanted to make sure I knew they want him in the store.

I think I'll be taking a break once he's finished. I have to hash out a few ideas anyway for the future Halloween project I want to put into the store, along with Lorn and now Jerrith.

Nanobot

Wayii said:
I likie!

Both the shape of the face and body and the pallor of the skin are very yummy.

Penny Dreadful just started up season 2 this week, so if you've got cable you can pick it back up again. :)

Yay! Penny Dreadful! I seriously puffy-heart that show.

The pale fellow with the nice pointy teeth...sweet. :)

GRIM

Thankee. I did the resubmit thing with youknowwho again. SO SICK OF GENITALS. We'll see. If they persist, I'm taking them off of the package and offering the dial/morph/textures to everyone that purchases him via sitemessage on the storefront. F'n' done.

So for now, I'm playing. I made normal maps in ShaderMap 3 and am trying them out on Jerrith using Baggin's enviro dome, an IBL/IDL map and one distant light (tweaked of course). I'll post the result when it's done.

BUT...I have an IDL set up with the maps using Ironman's IDL set (one of them) for yas. He's wearing Trystan's green 2 eyes atm.

GRIM

Finally- here he is wearing Trystan's Green 2 eyes as well, fyi. Raw render. I am happy with the SSS on his skin (no changes from the first renders except the normal map adding), so now it will be tweaking the map settings. I may remove the bump maps altogether and just rely on the normals. I'll see.

Wayii

Very nice :) And oh look! Trystan made it into the store. Finally.

GRIM

FINALLY. Oi.

Terre

Congrats!

GRIM

Thank you! Now I can piddle and go onto the other three characters I have in line. lol

GRIM

Working with normals.

GRIM

High spec lights with a tweak on one of the blinn nodes- the bump/normals are high at the moment so I can test how the reflective specular and blinn works on the textures.

GRIM

last IDL test.

Things are getting hairy here- we're at a Tor-Con of 7 now. This may very well be the last post, comment, except for my FB account until Monday. We're going out of town to get out of the way of this crap after work tonight.

Terre

Good luck and stay safe.

Nanobot

ARRGH! Did you make it? Are you in Oz now?

GRIM

I here! I'm ok. XD Though...some areas around me, not so much.

We are ok, and back to semi-normalcy. *hugs!*

GRIM

So, I've come to the conclusion that the converted diffuse that nearly *everyone* uses as bump maps will be removed from Jerrith completely.

This is a render with nothing but the normals and procedural bump through EZSkin. on the face, lips, and nostrils. With the "bump" map plugged into the procedural node from EZSkin, it looks exactly the same. I will work on detail only for a proper bump and see how that goes instead.

GRIM

different lights and angle

GRIM

tweaked the spec nodes- added a phong to the mix for more of a not so dry look to his skin, which is what I want for the base. I will end up tweaking that a bit as well (possibly making a brow mask for the spec), but later. IDL with a spot and point light for the lighting.

GRIM

Ok- another update.

I've learned that changing the gamma to 1 on all of the transp., normals, and displacements (while changing the displacements to gray background to make use of the black/white differentials) and using GC in a render can work. I added a colormath node and set it to subtract for the displacement maps.

Now the pores on his cheeks/nose area and the cracks I started on his lips can be done with the displacement with the veins and need NO bump maps at all.

GRIM

test 2- the idea is working. So, now it will be getting the face details painted and softening the look of the pores while adding height here and there for folds of skin. Just the basic test to see how it would work, but the idea that it did makes me very happy.

Nanobot

He got very pink and waxy! But yes, this works. And he's even got some eyebrow displacement--good. And...crazy lip cracks! LOL

GRIM

Yeaaaaaaaa...GC turned him really pink- and the light rig probably didn't help.

The waxy was to help get an idea on how the displacement looked, and I wanted a more waxy/moist look to his skin- though the settings here are exactly the same (barring the displacement) as the torso shot above these two.

I got a tip from Biscuits about the displacements- and this was the test! Using a gray base displacement can work really well in gamma corrected renders with the colormath node connecting the displacement map to the main node set up with the colormath set to subtract. It worked with other, older "displacement" maps I have from other characters from other vendors that use the diffuse map grayscaled out and ramped up in contrast. This idea may work on your guys, Nan, with the maps you use when you render out with Gamma.

For now, I am going to go back and re-start the makings of the details. Now that I know it works, I want to get them looking more realistic rather than "I've been in a desert and dying of thirst" as they are now.

GRIM

Oh-and the brows? That's from the normal map. ;) LOVE ME NORMALS.

Nanobot

Oh, it's all good, those displacements and normals. :) I knew about the subtract-from-gray thing. I usually do that for textures I make that have displacements.

Dying-in-a-desert vascularity. Hee. Poor things.

GRIM

Oh, I didn't know you knew that! LOL I just found that out myself.

Had to rework Lorn's body- the shoulders were bothering me, big time. (yup, working on him and Jerrith at the same time)

GRIM

Aaaand back into Studio 4.8 and Iray. WIP of skin shaders only on Trystan. May make this a set to sell as well so Studio users can...well...use him. With and without Iray shaders for those that don't have the updated Studio version just yet. I dunno.

Eyes, nails and hair not worked on much. Those are from a month or so back when Iray and the Beta became available.

Nanobot

I didn't know that the subtract-from gray base base had to do with using gamma correction specifically. I just always use that, since other programs (zbrush, substance painter/designer) all produce 50%-gray-based displacement. :)

I find a 2.2 gamma WAY too bright and un-painterly to my eye. In Vue, I usually just set gamma to 1.0. *shrug*

So, normals and displacements and height/bump, set the gamma specially to 1.0. Gotcha.

GRIM

Some updates on the IRAY thing: Spam!

GRIM

Bottom piece is the shaders finalized for Trystan in Iray/Studio...and then Studio froze. I had to use the task manager to shut it down (of course, lost the render) and the scene file became corrupted and wouldn't load.

This takes us to the top piece. Just started, and I managed to recreate the shaders pretty damn close to the bottom piece thankfully. I'm testing DOF on the top one, but since he's looking the way I want I can now save all of his materials using the IRay shaders in Studio.

Next step will be continuing the work I had done of him previously in Studio with no additional 3rd party shader systems for the older render engine.

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