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Works in Progress
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Thought it would be useful to have a thread for unfinished renders to get input on. :) Here's one I'm working on. The render is raw--not the usual boatload of postwork I do.
The title of the render is "Princeps," which, of course, is Latin for prince. I want the render to have a sort of detachment from time and space--it could be some ancient kingdom or it could be a modern fashion shoot. The sheer clothing is intentionally reminiscent of that worn by wealthy Egyptians, but the cut of the cloth is certainly not Egyptian--and the wearer is distinctly Northern European with his dark hair, fair skin, and green eyes. (The final version will be larger, btw, and rendered at higher settings).
Some of my thoughts that I'd particularly like input on:
*What do you think of my lighting? I kind of like it and kind of want more from it.
*I was thinking of doing the trim of the chiton in silver lamé instead of lace; what do you think?
*What do you think of the underskirt? Unnecessary?
*I currently have a marble stone in the ring, but I'm thinking of changing it to match the stone in the pins and torc. Agreed?
And any other comments are welcome as well. :)
Also feel free to post your own WIPs here for input. ;) I wasn't sure if maybe this should go in Arts and Engineering, so feel free to move it.
Princeps_WIP.png800 x 1000 - 731K -
No, it's a good idea for WIPs, as we'd like to keep WIPs out of the main threads, so great idea. :)I like where you are going so far. I think you could stand a little less even lighting. Personally, I like to have a 'hot spot' of lighting somewhere near the face (or focal point of the image). I like the look of your materials, though the translucent fabric is quite feminine (though that could be intentional).Are you intending to leave the backdrop all white like this? It's very stark and the the whole scene is quite devoid of colour (other than skin and gold). That can work for you, but right now, with no definition in the background it seems... I don't know how to put it other than 'unfinished'. However, I think the lighting can help this some. More contrast with a good rim light from behind and some deeper shadows will help a lot.Hope that helps. :)
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[quote]No, it's a good idea for WIPs, as we'd like to keep WIPs out of the main threads, so great idea.[/quote]
Great! :)
[quote]I like the look of your materials, though the translucent fabric is quite feminine (though that could be intentional)[/quote]
It is. As I said in my main post, I have in mind the trend in Egyptian society where the nobility (men and women) wore clothing that was very nearly transparent. I also wanted an excuse to play with LaceMaker. ;)
[quote]Are you intending to leave the backdrop all white like this? It's very stark and the the whole scene is quite devoid of colour (other than skin and gold). That can work for you, but right now, with no definition in the background it seems... I don't know how to put it other than 'unfinished'. However, I think the lighting can help this some. More contrast with a good rim light from behind and some deeper shadows will help a lot.[/quote]
I am actually intending to leave the backdrop white. In contrast with the more fantasy or classical look of the costuming and pose, I had in mind the look of glamor magazines (like [url=http://www.gq.com/images/style/2010/03/shia-labeouf/shia-labeouf-cover.jpg]GQ[/url]) and especially the white-on-white of [url=http://controlledfocus.com/wp-content/gallery/peopleportraits/wannes2.jpg]high-key photography[/url]. I'm even debating about maybe grayscaling the final image.
Thanks for the comments. :) I didn't quote it, but I can definitely see what you're saying about even lighting, though, and I think that's what's bugging me about the current light set-up.
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The translucency isn't what's bothering me, more the pattern is making it feel a bit like a floral dress, but as long as you like it that is all that matters.Okay, so keep the white on white, but boost your lighting so you get more contrast and you should be golden. You will also notice that on those magazine covers they were using a darker outfit to make the figure pop out of the backdrop. You can still do it with a lighter outfit, but then you want the contrast of the lighting to really make the image pop. My suggestion would be to add a very bright rim light somewhere behind the figure (a point light for instance, set to white (or even a faint colour, if you like) but set overly high - like 300%, with shadows turned off) That will rim light the figure.Add a kick from the side-ish that is a little less bright and have a main light somewhere from the front-ish. Keep it no higher than 100%. Then add a point light in close to the characters face, almost on par with his eyeline, with a fast fall-off (distance end) so that it only catches the face. Likely it will only need about 20 - 30% power. This will brighten the face just enough to make it pop out. You should also start getting some decent shadows on the subject too.You can add an IBL in as well, and a specular kick if you want. At least, this is what I usually do when I do something like this. As Nano says, your mileage may vary. ;)
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Suggestion for reflective surfaces: They need something to reflect. This is where the IDL Sphere from RDNA is a good kind of idea. (And hey, you don't have to make it! It's already there!) They're mapped with a kind of sky-ish texture,and with quite a few variations available. Your metals will then have something other than white to reflect! And will look metallic, therefore, instead of plastic. Same with the shiny columns and suchlike.
Actually, the RDNA IDL Sphere *and* their IDL Cove--use a light color or cloudy on it--would get you a nice tone on skin etc. and still give you that stark look. You can do a second render without the Sphere or Cove or ground or whatever to get a proper background mask so you can throw the actual background away and just have white in the finished product.
Oh, and please try to make the hand on the leg really sit down on it if possible. If that's dynamics, it's going to be a bit tough, I know.
The fabric is fine sheer... but it looks a bit like curtains with that light blue pattern. I'd pick something a bit more graphic than soft and fluffy.
Um, I assumed Poser, but actually, what *are* you using? IBLs, IDL, and such are a non-starter for most but the latest most expensive version of Studio.
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
( Oh, PS - BBcode doesn't work here. This ain't PhBB. :) Use regular HTML. )
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
@LT: I think your lighting suggestions were exactly what I needed. Thanks. :D
@Nano: I am using the IDL Sphere and Cove, though I haven't touched their materials--that's probably a good idea.
I know about the hand--I'm afraid if I move it closer it's going to rip the dynamics--it's already causing a fairly heavy indentation (more visible in the preview than in the render). :( And I am indeed using Poser Pro 2012, SSS, and IDL.
Actually, I think I can probably dump (most of) the lights and get better results if I use Colm's IDL lamps and then perhaps a spot light to highlight the face.
On the fabric, I'd like to keep the lace but perhaps a different lace would work better? And perhaps the silver cloth edging would help it look less like curtains..."lacy, gently wafting curtains"?
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Oh! IDL sphere NEEDS materials. Of some sort. :) Or there's sort of no point to it.
Colm's IDL lamps are cool, aren't they?
Point lights do better and more interesting things with skin than spots, especially if they have a falloff applied. And they look right in IDL as well.
You shouldn't need more than three lights for a scene with IDL and without a motivated light source (IE, like a candle or a lamp).
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
And actually, if you are using the IDL sphere and cove, you can set them up with your materials, set up your lights and then set the sphere and cove as invisible to camera in PP2012, then you get the light interaction without the cove and dome showing up in the render.
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evilgidget said:
And actually, if you are using the IDL sphere and cove, you can set them up with your materials, set up your lights and then set the sphere and cove as invisible to camera in PP2012, then you get the light interaction without the cove and dome showing up in the render.
Really?? AWESOME. That'll sure help for renders where I don't actually want to see those background props. Which is like, most of them.
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
Yeah, it is probably one of my favorite of the features. It saves having to make an extra render pass. It also comes in really handy for things like those interior sets that are sometimes such a pain to get the camera inside. But if you make the wall itself invisible you get emptiness in terms of
light bouncing around and have to tweak where any mirrors or reflective
items are to avoid showing the gap in the scenery.( I've rendered quite a few huh, where did that wall come from things lol) But using invisible to camera instead means that I can still have the set closed without rendering the wall and have it contribute to the shadows and reflections. Its fun to play with.
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Talking of the idl cove, I have it but rarely use it. Instead I use the dome from the terra dome set, which applies mats along with IBL, a point (for the sun) and a spec light in one go. The point light is parented to the dome and as you turn the dome the sun point revolves around your subject, after that you can start fiddling with extra lights and so on. It works a treat for outdoor scenes.
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The cove is for those "studio shots," for me. The terra dome's pretty cool, too.
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
Something I'm working on- with the shader nodes, lighting, and trying to get that skin texture to look ...somewhat better. WIP-definitely.
unsafe 1.png1000 x 1250 - 476K"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying that I approved of it. " Mark Twain. -
hah, yes indeedy.
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
Still playing with textures and night time lighting. I quite like both the red one and the grey.
silver options.png833 x 520 - 523K
Render 1b.png833 x 520 - 506K -
Red stands out far better.
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
Sorry, Nan was talking about the chap in front left, are you? The grey one gives the eye an easier chance in this lighting set up. But the red and black he wears in the top picture works in giving him a more mysterious and menacing character, I think.
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Well, maybe menacing...that's a bit qualitative. Mainly I mean that there is more contrast with the things he's leaning on when he wears black or red, and so stand out better. The whole setting is a bit uniform gray, and it's hard to grasp the fellow in the background heading toward them.
A nice hot rim light to pick the background guy out would help, as well as some brighter edge lighting to pick out the foreground guys, if you're doing all grayscale.
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
Put it to you this way: At first glance, I don't understand what the two bald guys are upset about.
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Xaa said:Put it to you this way: At first glance, I don't understand what the two bald guys are upset about.
agreed, Just been looking at them on my pc at work and can't really make out the guy in the back ground at all, and back to the lighting set up... -
Hi, I'm trying to set up a fight scene and wondered if anyone would care to give me a few pointers. This is just a basic render of the setup. No lights or anything. ... and I think the guy in the foregrounds head is actually in the concrete :(
Thanks for looking
Fight.jpg1000 x 750 - 366K -
dylazuna said:
Hi, I'm trying to set up a fight scene and wondered if anyone would care to give me a few pointers. This is just a basic render of the setup. No lights or anything. ... and I think the guy in the foregrounds head is actually in the concrete :(
Thanks for looking
More movement on the hair, definitely. As far as composition, I'd probably alter the position of the nearer and farther pair so that the nearer pair was more in the corner and the farther pair appeared to stage left of them rather than stage right. The unconscious one could be better posed, he doesn't look limp. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
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The unconscious guy not only isn't limp, seeing him adds nothing to the scene. You could crop the whole thing so that only his legs were sticking out and we'd understand. Cropping also conveys action and drama, suggesting that stuff is going on outside the frame.
Compositionally, too much is happening at the bottom of the picture, and absolutely nothing is going on at the top of the frame. Why? Again, crop closer in. Seeing the surroundings, unless there's going to be more going on in there, really is not necessary.
You only have to suggest sufficiently.. You don't have to show everything. I especially would not offset the two groupings with space around each. Arrange the perspective so they're more or less in a stack in frame and bursting upward with motion.
Yeah, flying clothing and hair has to happen here.
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
Thank you for your suggestions Xaa and Nano.It took soooo long to tweak the M4 poses to work with Genesis I just plonked the hair on and rendered :)
Will take your comments on board and have a another go later on when I get back from work. I also don't think it's obvious that the round house kicker is a girl. She and the guy in the foreground are/should be the main characters so to speak ;(
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That's Genny? Not bad. No, I couldn't really tell about the kicker until you said that and I looked for bewbs.
Doing close contact poses is very fiddly work and difficult to get just so. You did good!
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
Ok, Nan, I have a question, I've gone through various trials and errors on this one pic I'm doing, and I need a suggestion, should the hair facing the camera be dark, or a little more detailed? I've been beating my brains out over this because all the pics I've found of wet hair seem to point me in every direction. How would you handle this one?
(And yes, those candles are definitely gone in my next draft!) lol
chains2.jpg2500 x 1875 - 3M -
A few things, after I admire all those chains:
1) Why should his hair be soaking wet even to the ends? The rest of him and his surroundings are perfectly dry. If sweaty, that's something else again, because the ends would be dry or only sticking together a little.
2) If his face is basically hidden like that, you've done all you can in terms of shine. Take your cue from where the lights hit the bald head! That will always steer you right.
3) I'd put more light on his features to at least pull his head out of the background. This is where the thumbnail above is very useful. Can you tell what's going on from that thumbnail alone? If you can't, you need to work the lighting harder. There's nothing wrong with the candles except that they are not throwing any light on him! Those in the lower left should be illuminating his right side a bit more. Use point lights with candles, when in doubt.
4) With head bent like that and no possibility of him combing his hair nicely--and it is nicely combed except for a few artful pieces--it should be hiding his face mostly, especially if it's that long all over. You wouldn't really see his profile, as hair grows forward from the crown of the head (check yours, you'll see! :) ) It would be over his ears and clumping in midair, not sticking wetly to his neck and temples.
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
Wow thank you Nan, I really appreciate that. You definitely took a more practical approach to it that I just couldn't see when I first started on it! Hair painting is still kind of awkward for me, and trying to emulate realistic hair is a pain, so I have lots of admiration for you and Mavrosh!
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Nan is a good teacher for hair painting. I learned everything I know from her. :)
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I'll beg forgiveness if I'm a bit short when replying. Life is being more chaotic than usual these days! Everyone is complaining that I'm grumpy, and it's true.
My artistic approach really is practical, and I come at things from the perspective of "what would I have to do if I had to do it in a real studio? Or if this was someone suffering in chains (well, more or less suffering, those can't be nice to be shackled to), what would really happen? I put myself right there and half the time, try out the poses myself to see if they could be done.
After the practicalities are addressed, I admit the style. Or it enters organically, without my conscious addition, and that's the best for me and my peculiar personality and talent. I find this makes sure that the foundation of the composition is strong.
This is just me, now, because whenever *I* try to do something "artful" it looks forced and fairly stupid, unless its something like copying the basic composition of a painting (my "Flaming July"). YOU may be able to do something artful right off the bat--and I see that you can. Oh, there's a Rendo artist who does Art Nouveau renderings with the greatest of ease, and it just makes my jaw drop.
So, your mileage may vary with these comments. But the technicalities must lay the groundwork, in whatever medium, and be solid.
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
How come I just noticed the WIP thread...? Oy... *smacks self* Now I know, :D Nice stuff so far everyone.
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you mean it's not just me?
pic 1... too bright of white in the bg! but that's why it's a wip, right?
pic with the crime scene... reminds me of new orleans times picayune
photos where they take a pic for an article and then over to the side
there's a body in the photo that just has everyone scratching their
heads. like the article might be about traffic control or speed limits
through the french quarter, but 90% of the comments will be how
nopd really needed more body bags or the journalist needs to crop
the pic, or the police cheif should be fired or...
you get the idea. the fallen guy is distracting...
ok, dark skinned guy with candles...
i actually love the hair on him. if it's as hot where that
scene depicts, he'd be sweating buckets, so his hair
would cling. it has a frazettaish feel. just had to say that...
ok, i'm really blunt when asked opinions on art. i just
am really bad at saying great render, don't change a thing...
unless i feel this way. i'm far worse in proofreading and
editing writing, trust me... and i'm hardest on myself in that
way... i can write crp, but i don't want to, so most of the time
i don't. same with art, well, used to be, anyway, when i was
very actively drawing and painting... i can draw lousy, but i really
don't want to...
i hope some of my rambling helps somebody. i don't do shy very
well at all...
ladyfur
~^..^~ ladyfur -
Fight scene version 2. I'm not sure this is really my forte but I'm persevering. Maybe I've gone too close in. It kind of all looks a big tangle of bodies to me, there's no 'path' for the eyes to follow. Or does that matter with a fight scene?
Still no lighting yet.
Thanks for looking
fight3.jpg1000 x 750 - 384K -
Oh yes, that's much better. Actually, the jaggedy lines that all those arms and legs make are perfect with the roofline and the kicking leg behind leading us to the fight at the front just like an arrow. The tilted camera adds to the drama hugely.
Other than that, you need to be working on the lighting at the same time, or show it to us with the poses as it's a huge part of composition. Since...if the lighting hides the roofline and background, you have to go back to the drawing board with composition. It's pretty much done all at once, after you frame the basic scene in camera.
LT could probably speak to this more concisely... *wanders around looking for LT*
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
Speaking of composition, this just showed up in my in-box. I get Robert Genn's twice-weekly newsletter, which often has some wonderful gems to share:Six compositional boo-boos
March 2, 2012
Last night, while on jury duty, my fellow juror and I agreed the most common fault seen among entries was in composition. Well drawn, well rendered and well coloured--all came to naught when the composition had significant faults. I've often written about what an artist should do. In this letter I'm giving six common pitfalls. Last night we noticed them all.
Weak foreground. The foreground appears as an afterthought. Wishy-washy, unresolved or inconsequential--it fails to set the subject onto a reasonable ground or to lead the eye to what the artist would have us see. Even in abstract or mystical work, a foreground needs to be implied and understood as a vital contributor to the whole.
Homeostatic conditions. Homeostasis means equidistant lineups of trees, rocks, blocks of colour, or other patterns that are too mechanical or regular. It includes trees growing out of the tops of people's heads. While sometimes seen in nature, homeostasis is a natural human tendency--a subconscious reordering and regularizing within the brain. "Even in front of nature one must compose," said Edgar Degas.
Amorphous design. The general design lacks conviction. A woolly, lopsided or wandering pattern makes for a weak one. Often, the work has unresolved areas and lacks cohesiveness and unity. "Everything that is placed within the enclosing borders of the picture rectangle relates in some way to everything else that is already there. Some attribute must be shared between all of them." (Ted Smuskiewicz)
Lack of flow. Rather than circulating the eye from one delight to another, the work blocks, peters out and invites you to look somewhere else. "Composition," said Robert Henri, "is controlling the eye of the observer." Effective compositions often contain planned activation (spots like stepping stones that take you around), and serpentinity (curves that beguile and take you in.)
Too much going on. Overly busy works tire the eye, induce boredom and make it difficult to find a centre of interest or focus. Less is often more. "Take something out," said the American painter and illustrator Harvey Dunn.
Defeated by size. Effective small paintings often work well because they are simple and limited in scope. But when artists make larger paintings they often lose control of the basic idea and what is ironically called "the big picture." "The larger the area to be painted," says Alfred Muma, "the harder it is to have a good composition."
PS: "A well-composed painting is half done." (Pierre Bonnard)
Esoterica: The path to stellar composition is spotted with potholes. Further, compositional design can be unique to the individual, and intuitive. This approach can be unreliable. Habitual poor composition can have long-term effects on otherwise excellent work. After our engaging juror effort (there were many excellent, compositionally sound paintings), over a straight-up gin Martini (for a change), my friend and I loftily decided to found a "School of Composition"--where only composition would be taught. Like the tattoos on the girl's back, it seemed like a good idea at the time.* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
Even more fun:
I daresay we are doing much the same with 3d rendering. It's not the model, it's a way of seeing the model.Drawing is not the same as form; it is a way of seeing form. (Edgar Degas)* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
And:When you feel like putting something into your picture or do not know
what is the matter with it, take something out. (Harvey Dunn)* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
Actually, Harvey Dunn's advice is pretty universal. I would seriously take this shit to heart.
http://quote.robertgenn.com/auth_search.php?authid=6373
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
All in all, Nan is kicking ass and taking no prisoners on this round of mentoring, and I LIKE it! I very often struggle with a picture from beginning to end, ESPECIALLY character building, as I usually always intend my characters to be the focus of the picture I spend days setting them up with clothes, hair (if I decide to be a lazy bastard and render my hair) and finally skins. Then I struggle with the sets. Then Lighting, then the best camera angle to capture picture and make the most of the lighting. However, I think I found my biggest breakthrough when I was studying some of the art of my faves (Nan, Mavrosh, & LT among a few) and realized that their pictures are out of my comfort zone! Everything I had been doing were things that I found easy and simple for me to do. When I started setting up scenes, cameras, actors and lights in an area I wasn't comfortable with, I blossomed as an artist. DON'T do things you'd expect yourself to do. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing whilst expecting different results!
BTW Sorry didn't mean to go on a tangent.
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celticfire said:
All in all, Nan is kicking ass and taking no prisoners on this round of mentoring, and I LIKE it! I very often struggle with a picture from beginning to end, ESPECIALLY character building, as I usually always intend my characters to be the focus of the picture I spend days setting them up with clothes, hair (if I decide to be a lazy bastard and render my hair) and finally skins. Then I struggle with the sets. Then Lighting, then the best camera angle to capture picture and make the most of the lighting. However, I think I found my biggest breakthrough when I was studying some of the art of my faves (Nan, Mavrosh, & LT among a few) and realized that their pictures are out of my comfort zone! Everything I had been doing were things that I found easy and simple for me to do. When I started setting up scenes, cameras, actors and lights in an area I wasn't comfortable with, I blossomed as an artist. DON'T do things you'd expect yourself to do. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing whilst expecting different results!
BTW Sorry didn't mean to go on a tangent.
Nah, not a tangent. This is VERY appropriate to the notion of Works In Progress!
Yes, it IS good to get out of the comfort zone when up to it.
Sometimes, art is yummy chicken soup to make us feel better. Sometimes it's a hammer to the head to make us grow.
Regarding chicken soup as a hammer--frozen, I imagine. Leave no evidence!
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
lol at frozen chicken soup...
i have one question. why were they discussing art and rendering while on jury duty? that one baffles me...
i like degas. he liked ballerinas.
~^..^~ ladyfur -
ladyfur said:
lol at frozen chicken soup...
i have one question. why were they discussing art and rendering while on jury duty? that one baffles me...
i like degas. he liked ballerinas.
He means an art jury, as in with an art contest.
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Besides, you end up discussing the oddest things while on jury duty because you're not supposed to discuss what you're really dying to discuss.
Suspiro ergo sum. -
oh! oops... thanks, xaa. i was thinking it was the did he do it or not type jury...
suro, that makes sense, i guess. so they don't let you say what you think,
yet you are supposed to be judging? wierd...
~^..^~ ladyfur -
No, you're not supposed to discuss the case outside of the jury room at the time of deliberations. No gossiping about it. But it's kinda hard to have lunch and breaks with someone not on the same jury with you, so you talk about everything that's not the most immediate thing on your mind -- ie the case.
And that was just a DUI.
Suspiro ergo sum. -
Nanobot said:Oh yes, that's much better. Actually, the jaggedy lines that all those arms and legs make are perfect with the roofline and the kicking leg behind leading us to the fight at the front just like an arrow. The tilted camera adds to the drama hugely.
Other than that, you need to be working on the lighting at the same time, or show it to us with the poses as it's a huge part of composition. Since...if the lighting hides the roofline and background, you have to go back to the drawing board with composition. It's pretty much done all at once, after you frame the basic scene in camera.
LT could probably speak to this more concisely... *wanders around looking for LT*
Thank you very much for the comments and the composition tips and quotes. I take your point about the lighting. It can definitely make or break a scene. Since this type of action scene was something new for me, I wanted to see if I could get a reasonable grouping together first, before I spent time setting up all of the materials and shaders which goes hand in hand with the lighting. I render in LUX which means I need to rework a lot of the DAZ/Poser material settings, create missing bump/spec maps, create normal maps etc. Also, lighting a scene is more 'realistic' than the biased render engine in DAZ and I presume poser. For example a scene can be lit with just one sun light which behaves totally just as the sun would. It is also possible to change the lighting 'on the fly' just by switching lights on/off, increasing/decreasing intensity or changing the camera/film settings, so a scene could change from 'day' to 'night' just whilst it is rendering. The downside is that renders take hours, sometimes days. 'Fortunately' they can be stopped and restarted and it's possible to see where the end result is going within a few minutes. Of course, all this doesn't mean I get the lighting right, I just find it easier to understand :)
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Ahhh... well, now that you tell us about your external render engine. Never mind, then, that's an entirely different workflow! Sorry about all that pontificating.
* A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five!
* Isn't it wonderful how cute weapons of mass distraction can be?
* Those are my principles. And if you don't like them, I have others. -
No no not at all, I didn't see it as pontificating. Your points are all still valid and I really welcome your insight and experience. It might be a different way of working with the lighting, but lighting is still an integral part of the final result. All too often I find that my scenes lack depth and I know it's a lighting issue. For example, in my portrait lady, http://dylazuna.deviantart.com/gallery/29025720#/d4q5rv0 the vase looks like a cardboard cut out rather than a sold vase :(
I've followed loads of tutorials on 3Delight lighting and uberEnvironment but I just can't get decent results as my brain doesn't seem to be able to get to grips with the shader lighting concepts, so I'm totally in awe of people who produce beautifully crafted artwork using Daz/Poser render engines. At least with LUX I understand the concepts of how it's supposed to work, basically like it does in the 'real world'. It's still not 'real' real though, more like lighting a film set, or a studio set up. You tend to need less lights as they bounce and reflect. For instance if you wanted to say highlight a particular part of a scene to take it out of the shadows, I think in Poser you would need to use a light to do that, whereas in LUX you can use a plane to reflect light back onto the object. LUX even uses softboxes with gobos and gels. Another downside of working this way is that I don't see any lighting in DAZ, I have to start rendering to check out the lighting. I literally spent most of the weekend doing a gazillion test renders to check materials and lights, so another WIP coming up soon :)
Thanks again for your help.
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So here's the scene with 3 light options. I originally wanted dusk as that fits better with the storyline but I think the darker lighting looks more dramatic, especially with the fire escape shadows.
Brief story outline is as follows: This is how Yasmin and Zeke meet.Yasmin has unknowingly wandered into the wrong side of town. Female
alone, world short of females, not a good place to be. She catches the
eye of a gang of three males. Whilst she knows a bit a self
defence/martial arts, three against one is out of her league...until
Zeke arrives on the scene and evens the odds.
I think the lighting still needs more work to separate the front guy's (on the ground) foot from the building and Yasmin from the background. I have one light for the sun(or moon), an IBL for the environment, a low mesh light in front of Zeke to cast onto his face so it isn't in so much shadow and a plane on the left to reflect light back into the scene and simulate bounce from the other buildings around the courtyard (less geometry than using the actual buildings). Oh, plus the light bulb on the wall.
Opinions anyone?
If there are any lighting technicians or photographers out there just imagine you were lighting this for real as a movie set.
Thank you.I appreciate all and any comments.
P.S. I also think Zeke's nosebleed is currently coming across as a 'Hitler' moustache !
FightLights.jpg667 x 1500 - 595K
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